Sunday, October 09, 2005

October 10, 2005 Illegal Immigration Resolution

HAMBLEN COUNTY COMMISSION RESOLUTION


This is a copy of the information provided to all Hamblen County Commissioners at the October 10th meeting of the Public Services Committee regarding estimated costs incurred by the county in 2002-2003 and 2003-2004 in relation to the education of illegal immigrant students.
The parts that will be sent to the U. S. Government (Senator Bill Frist and Senator Lamar Alexander and Congressman Bill Jenkins of Tennessee and others) are:
A. The Resolution
C. Itemized Costs.
Sections B,D,E, and F provide background information, data on additional costs, commentary on statements that have previously been made in opposition to the proposal, and figures that were requested of the Hamblen County Board of Education by Commissioner Tom Lowe.
NOTE: Some of the information in the resolution was in a column format but may not appear in columns within this text. Hopefully, any information that was in a column format can be understood regardless.
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“Send the ‘illegal immigration education’ bill to the US Government”

Contents:
A. Resolution
B. Background & Objective
C. Itemized Costs
D. Costs Recognized but not Included
E. Commentary
F. Appendix: Figures Requested of HCBOE


Submitted by Commissioner Tom Lowe
October, 2005

A. RESOLUTION

Whereas.....1. Hamblen County school expenses routinely exceed revenues, largely due to costs arising from education services rendered to students whose enrollment in Hamblen County schools is due to illegal immigration.

Whereas.....2. School enrollment data reveals the majority of students produced by illegal immigration are illegal aliens, unlawfully present in the United States.

Whereas.....3. Supreme Court case law in Plyler v. Doe requires Hamblen County to provide education services to all students whether their U.S. presence is lawful or unlawful.

Whereas…..4. Federal mandates requiring county payment for educational services to students in Hamblen County due to illegal immigration has precluded other county services, staff pay and benefits, as well as needed capital repair and maintenance.

Whereas......5. Local police departments receive federal reimbursement for the cost of arresting and jailing illegal aliens under the Department of Justice State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP), requiring law enforcement to establish that the prisoner is an illegal alien.

Whereas......6. State prisons receive federal reimbursement for long-term incarceration of sentenced illegal alien prisoners, also requiring that the prisoner be identified as an illegal alien.

Whereas......7. Hospitals may obtain federal reimbursement of illegal aliens’ medical costs after establishing the patient’s illegal alien status.

Be It Resolved...That the Hamblen County Commission will send an invoice to the United States Government for educational costs due to illegal immigration, similar in principle to current reimbursement practices of local police, state prisons and hospitals.

Itemized costs are based on figures already submitted, accepted and paid by the Tennessee Dept of Education for services rendered during the school years 2002-03 and 2003-04. Student counts will be taken from enrollment in Title 1, Part C Migrant Education Program, because the occupations qualifying a “migrant” student (agriculture, migratory, temporary or seasonal agricultural workers, migratory dairy workers, fishing or migratory, temporary or seasonal fishing (8)) are routinely identified by government officials as performed by illegal aliens because “they do the jobs Americans won’t do.”

In addition to the calculated local contribution to the established PPE (Per Pupil Expenditure) will be included costs of operating two federal programs: (a) Title 1, Part C Migrant Education Program and
(b) Title III, English as a Second Language

Only costs of programs directly resulting from students enrolled in Hamblen County Schools as a result of illegal immigration will be included. An example is the free breakfast & free lunch program. Many “illegal immigration” students are on the free meal program but can’t be distinguished from other students. For that reason, the costs of such programs won’t be included in this resolution and invoice.

Sections A & C (Resolution and Itemized Cost Statement), itemized by year and based on Tennessee DOE figures, will be sent to Washington DC offices of our federal legislators: Senator Bill Frist, Senator Lamar Alexander and Congressman Bill Jenkins.

B. BACKGROUND & OBJECTIVE

BACKGROUND. As with other U.S. local governments, illegal immigration has been disastrous to Hamblen County’s finances, especially with education costs.

One indicator of “illegal immigration” is the count of “English-Language Learner” and Migrant students:
Year---Migrant(ii)---ELL (i)---ELL/Hispanic---Hispanic Only (i)----All (i)
99-00------------------193-----------71%-------------272 (3.0%)--------9,015
00-01----198----------275----------71%-------------385 (4.2%)---------9,121
01-02--- 200----------253----------55%-------------458 (5.0%)---------8,995
02-03--- 503----------355----------54%-------------659 (6.9%)---------9,602
03-04--- 973 (iii)-----496----------65%-------------760 (7.8%)---------9,729
04-05--- 744 (iii)----563 (ii) 300% increase in 5 years!
05-06--- 650 (ii) Projected
Nor does the growth show any sign of abating; the expected 2006 number shows a 15.5% increase over 2005!

Both commissioners and citizens dislike increasing property taxes, especially with current citizen resistance and objections to illegal immigration. Other solutions must be found, and public awareness followed by public discussion and debate will begin the process.

Sadly, Hamblen County not only hasn’t searched for solutions, some commissioners still pretend there is no problem. The result is that law enforcement agencies have a federal program (SCAAP) to recover at least a portion of their “illegal immigration” costs and a recent “one-time” appropriation was made for reimbursement of states’ medical care to illegal aliens. In comparison, school systems have no opportunity for federal reimbursement of their illegal immigration costs.

OBJECTIVE. Changes in public policy and public law occur when elected representatives hear from citizens, best expressed by the old adage “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.” Law enforcement and hospitals have “squeaked” while funders of school systems have not. To the irritation of local property owners and parents, they’ve quietly passed “illegal immigration” costs to local taxpayers.

So long as Hamblen County Commissioners continue to sit quietly, nothing will change—“illegal immigration costs” will continue to increase, no new solutions will be found (or even sought), and taxpayers and parents will become increasingly furious at the commission’s inaction.

By passing and sending the resolution to our federal elected legislators, we hope to effect public policy changes. By drawing public attention to the issue, public awareness and support for policy changes will increase. Including associated costs emphasizes the need for action.

The solution proposed in the resolution is reimbursement of “illegal immigration” education costs (for years 2002-03 and 2003-04) from the federal government whose failure to stop illegal immigration has produced the excess costs, similar to what’s currently done with law enforcement and hospitals.

Will a phone call from a federal official tell us “the check’s in the mail?” We won’t know until we try; there’s no guarantee.

Our only guarantee is what we already know to be the result of continued inaction--continued rising local costs, continued pressure for tax increases, and increased taxpayer and parent complaints. A recent newspaper quote will be recycled with each new school budget: “The school district is asking for $1.2 million in new local funding this year.”(iv) Schools’ incessant demands for “more money, more money” has become
automatic; only the numbers vary from year to year.
C. ITEMIZED COST STATEMENT
PPE = Per Pupil Expenditure
Hamblen County Direct Contribution (6)
  • School Year 2002-03 (PPE = $6369) 44.7% of PPE Total
  • Migrant Count (1)--------503 x $ 2,847----------------------- $1,432,041
  • School Year 2003-04 (PPE = $6448) 43.8% of PPE Total
  • Migrant Population (11)-973 x $ 2,824---------------------- $2,747,752
  • Total Selected Hamblen County Direct Costs----------- $ 4,179,793
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For consideration with the “Itemized Costs” section, the following figures were requested of Supt. Dale Lynch on Friday, September 15. As of Thursday, October 6, the information remains undelivered with no commitment of an actual delivery date.

Administrative costs of the Migrant Student program, listing separately each staff position title, salary range and benefits package. This should include but not be limited to:
a. Gail Rice (or equivalent staff position), supervisor of the HCBOE migrant program and the percentage of her time allocated to the Migrant Student program.
b. Juan Cervantes, Migrant Coordinator (or equivalent staff position)
c. 3 Part-time Migrant teachers (as stated on the HCBOE website)
d. The state DOE website mentions "Kimberly Fox." What is her function, position, title, and salary range for the three mentioned years?

Administrative costs of the ELL program, listing separately each staff position title, salary range and benefits package. This should include but not be limited to:
a. Brenda Dean (or equivalent staff position), overseer of HCBOE’s ELL program and the percentage of time allocated to ELL.
b. Each ELL teacher and percentage of time allocated to ELL

Although these two programs receive federal grants earmarked for ELL and/or Migrant Education, federal administrators for both ELL and Migrant Education report these grants are often supplemented by “local money.” They are the best source of whether that’s true in Hamblen County is the local school district. (13, 14) -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
…from Sandra Miller, Phoenix, AZ (assisting Commissioner Lowe)
Dollar figures for administering both the ELL and Migrant programs were requested by Commissioner Lowe of Supt. Dale Lynch on Friday, Sept 15, providing Lynch with a custom-prepared 1-page form upon which requested data could be written. Commissioner Lowe asked that the completed information be returned on or before Friday, September 30.

When figures provided to Commissioner Lowe on 9/23 were found to be incomplete and largely irrelevant to this resolution, Commissioner Lowe’s vacation led me to tackle the task of obtaining them on his behalf. A revised form (F-Appendix) was e-mailed to Dr. Lynch on Tuesday, Sept. 27 (with an e-mail copy to his secretary to avoid the “spam-blocker” that hindered Lowe’s initial e-mail transmittal), even the secretary didn’t receive it. Upon learning two days later (Thursday, Sept. 29) from Dr. Lynch that he isn’t receiving e-mail, the form was faxed to him that afternoon. On the same fax, I suggested that he ask HCBOE Information Systems staff to scan his completed form and send it to me by attaching to an e-mail.

Hoping to enable easier delivery for Dr. Lynch, a fax was sent to Dr. Lynch the following Monday (October 3) suggesting that he send the requested and completed information to Commissioner Noe and provided her fax number. Two days later (Wedneday, October 5) Lynch’s secretary Ava Goforth phoned me asking for my fax number; upon learning that I don’t have “receive” capability, asked for my mailing address in Arizona. She was evasive when I asked whether she can send/receive e-mail, as well as to my question of “what is Dr. Lynch sending me?” Only when I repeated the question three times (“Does the ‘response’ consist of the information requested?” did she finally admit that the “response” didn’t include the requested information but only stated that Dr. Lynch would not accept my request to fax to a “third party” (that they consider Commissioner Noe a “third-party” is mind-boggling).

Preliminary figures for the ELL program alone indicate costs of over $600,000. When (or perhaps if) dollar figures initially requested of Dr. Lynch on September 15 actually arrive, they may reveal increased “illegal immigration” cost amounts due to local contributions to these programs.
To avoid similar delays, the Migrant Education and ELL Education departments of Tennessee and the US Dept of Education were consulted instead of the HCBOE, although HCBOE seems to be the only source for local dollar figures.
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D. COSTS RECOGNIZED ALTHOUGH NOT INCLUDED.

Figures listed above obviously don’t represent total “illegal immigration education” costs to Hamblen County schools, only the obvious ones identified by non-education “laymen.” They’re likely a “tip of the iceberg” representation that emphasizes the need for further study with collected figures clearly identifying students associated with illegal immigration.

Having stated that, even the cursory figures are daunting. The “illegal immigration” costs equal or double the $1.2 million funding increase requested for the current school year!

Although other programs beside those itemized are affected, the costs from “illegal immigration students” aren’t distinguishable from conventional student participants. These programs are mentioned in this section to increase public awareness of the pervasive effect of illegal immigration costs on the US public school system.

a. Free breakfast and free lunches for “illegal immigration” students (mentioned earlier). One parent shared the comments of his children's elementary school principal that all Hispanic students at that particular school receive free breakfast and free lunches. While “Hispanic” isn’t necessarily a one-to-one translation to “illegal alien,” the correlation is undeniable. That same principal certainly didn’t mention having every student of other ethnic groups (Anglo, Asian, etc) in such programs!

b. Administrative and Maintenance costs for at least 2 additional schools to accommodate the 503 or 973 “illegal immigration” students. PPE (Per Pupil Expenditure) amount on the report card is based on the total actual expenditures (including all personnel salaries) of each school system divided by the average number of students in attendance at the system. (9)

Based on 2002-03 school populations (4), at least 2 elementary schools are required to accommodate the number of “illegal immigration” students. By removing from the HC schools’ equation only the elementary “illegal immigration students,” 2 (or more) elementary schools may not be needed:
  • Alpha Elementary--------------- K-5 688
  • Fairview Marguerite-------------K-5 431
  • Hillcrest Elementary------------ K-5 500
  • John Hay Elementary----------- K-5 251 }Elem. 49.85%
  • Lincoln Heights------------------- K-5 365
  • Manley Elementary-------------- K-5 467
  • Russellville Elementary--------- K-5 612
  • Union Heights Elementary------ K-5 246
  • West Elementary------------------ K-5 402
  • Whitesburg Elementary---------- K-5 189
  • Witt Elementary------------------- K-5 187
  • East Ridge Middle---------------- 6-8 589
  • Lincoln Heights Middle--------- 6-8 493 } Middle 23.3%
  • Meadowview---------------------- 6-8 563
  • West View Middle---------------- 6-8 599
  • Morristown East High------- 9-12 1,271 } HS 26.25%
  • Morristown West High------ 9-12 1,250
  • HC Alternative--------------- K-12 60 0.6%
  • Total Students (2002-2003) ----------------------9,602
With a student reduction equal to “illegal immigration students,” total expenditures could be reduced by two schools (building maintenance and repair) as well as the associated staff:
  • 2 principals @ $59,619 (5) ------------- $ 119,238
  • 2 asst. principals @ $50,676 -----------$ 101,352
  • 2 secretaries @ $24,405 ----------------$ 48,810
  • 4 custodians @ $ 22,830 ----------------$ 45,660
  • Benefits Packages 10@ $8,607---------$ 86,070
  • TOTAL ------------------------------------$ 401,130
c. Teachers needed to service numbers of “illegal immigration students.”
  • School Year 2002-03
  • Additional teachers for 503 “illegal immigration” students
  • (25.8 students/teacher) (12) 19.5 x $ 36,963 (5)-----------$ 720,779
  • Benefits Package— District Cost 19.5 x $ 8,198 (10)------ $ 159,861
  • School Year 2003-04
  • Additional teachers for 973 “illegal immigration” students
  • (25.8 students/teacher)(12) 37.7 x $ 37,284 (5)-------- $ 1,405,607
  • Benefits Package—District Cost 37.7 x $ 8,607 (10)------$ 324,484
  • TOTAL FOR TWO YEARS-------------------------------------$2,610,731
Resources Used (Sections B. C and D):
(i) Report Card, Tennessee DOE website http://www.state.tn.us/education/rptcrd00/index.html
(ii) “Hamblen County Measure of Success Report;” Students Served ELL, Ricky Bruce, Education Committee, January 25, 2005
(iii) Final Yearly Count, Migrant Education Consultant, TNDOE
(iv) Morristown Citizen-Tribune, “Battle Lines Drawn in fight for school funding,” July 14, 2005
(v) Non-Illegal Immigrant Students (Non-II) = Total Students = Migrant Students
(1) “Hamblen County—Measure of Success Report,” Students Served Migrant, Ricky Bruce, Education Committee, January 25, 2005
(2) “A look at the Hamblen Co. Hispanic population,” Morristown Citizen Tribune, July 6, 2005
(3) HCBOE website & e-mail from Dr. Dale Lynch dated September 24, 2005
(4) School population, Tennessee DOE website http://www.state.tn.us/education/
(5) Annual Statistical Report, Average Salary, 2003-04, Tennessee DOE website: http://www.state.tn.us/education/mrptarchive.htm
(6) Report Card; Finance, Tennessee Doe website http://www.state.tn.us/education/
(7) Statistics delivered by Dr. Dale Lynch, September 23 2005
(8) Federal Programs: Title I, Part C-Migrant Education, Tennessee DOE website, http://www.state.tn.us/education/
(9) Director, Local Finance, TN State Dept of Education, Nashville, TN
(10) “Hamblen County—Measure of Success Report,” Financial Summary—Benefits Plan, Ricky Bruce, Education Committee, January 25, 2005
(11) Final Yearly Count, Migrant Education Consultant, TNDOE
Note: to qualify as ‘migrant,’ students must have moved alone, with or to join a parent, spouse or guardian who has moved to obtain work in agriculture, fishing, temporary or seasonal employment.
(12) Tennessee Code Title 49, Chapter 1-104, weighted mean of specified average class sizes.
(13) Regional Coordinator, Office of Migrant Education, US Dept of Education, Washington DC
(14) Title III Program Director, TNDOE
E. COMMENTARY. This section presents and rebuts arguments against the resolution, usually from those who favor illegal immigration for a variety of reasons.

(1) Voting NO or TABLE. There’s no “neutral position” on this resolution. Those who vote NO reveal that they want to continue allowing the federal executive branch to refuse their responsibility of stopping illegal immigration while continuing to shift the costs to local taxpayers. The same is true of those voting to TABLE in the hope of evading an unpopular decision. Tabling the matter also allows the current problem to continue and intensify.

(2) “Political Posturing.” "Reluctants" have labeled the resolution "political posturing" because supporters acknowledge their primary objective is increased awareness and public scrutiny of the issue with actual collection of money a secondary objective. Actually receiving a check would be nice, but it’s recognized as a secondary objective.

What a detractor calls "political posturing" supporters call "stepping up to the plate." Dismissing the resolution as "political posturing' is similar to accusing those who oppose illegal immigration of racism by those who can't destroy the message so instead try to destroy the messenger.

(3) Primary / Secondary costs of illegal immigration. The resolution and itemized costs refer to “students in Hamblen county schools due to illegal immigration” whether or not the students themselves are illegal aliens or children of illegal aliens born in the US (known as “anchor babies”). Had the US federal government fulfilled its Constitutional obligations in Article IV, Section IV, stopped illegal immigration and closed the borders, neither group of students would be enrolled in Hamblen County schools.

That “anchor babies” are a secondary rather than a primary cost of illegal immigration doesn’t change an undeniable fact: had illegal immigration into the US not been so easy, the parents wouldn’t have been present in the US to give birth to these “anchor babies.”

For this resolution, both illegal alien students and “anchor babies” are included in “illegal immigration” students. Should the Hamblen County Commission be able to collect accurate figures of the immigration status of enrolled students and their parents, it will be important that the figures include these “anchor babies.”

(4) “The issue has become ‘political.’ ” Some fear the illegal immigration issue will produce violence similar to that of the 1960s. One commissioner says that despite his recognizing the validity of citizens’ complaints, he’ll vote NO because “it’s become political.”

Let’s review what happened during those ‘violent 60s’:

American citizens had legitimate complaints about inequitable or non-enforcement of laws.

When these American citizens approached their elected representatives to correct the inequity, those officials refused to hear, much less resolve, the valid complaints of black citizens.

Their repeated attempts to “petition for redress of grievances” as guaranteed by the First Amendment didn’t work. In effect, their elected representatives voted NO.

They tried going through the local system as law-abiding citizens, but when they found the local system hostile and unresponsive, civil disobedience to draw national attention was their only remaining option.

Although they intended to achieve their “awareness” goal by non-violent means, eruptions were almost inevitable as the same “deaf” representatives continued to deny their rights as citizens.

National awareness of the injustice generated corrective action by the federal government. Had local government addressed and resolved the problem, there would have been no need for help from “outsiders.” Citizens exercising their First Amendment rights of “redress of grievances” are entitled to use any assistance legally available.

Now let’s look at today that Commissioner Alvis presumably remembers:
American citizens want consistent enforcement of all laws on the books (including immigration laws), and object to enforcement of laws against them while illegal aliens are allowed to violate any laws they choose with no consequences.
When these same American citizens ask their elected representatives to insure uniform enforcement of laws on the books, those officials refuse to hear, much less correct, the valid complaints of these American citizens. The August 22 response of Mayor Gary Johnson to Tom Duthie is typical:

Sergeant Major Duthie,

The City of Morristown or our Police Department have no jurisdiction as regards United States immigration laws, including those “that already exist.”

Until such time that the US Government decides to deal with the situations you speak of, little will change.

Sincerely,

Mayor Gary R. Johnson

When these same American citizens participated in a July rally, it was peaceful; the only problems were created by those supporting illegal aliens.

Another typical response to objections of these American citizens is Mayor Johnson’s August 13 “show of overwhelming force.” Because they recognized attempts by local officials to portray their attempts as “infiltrated by hate groups,” they intentionally absented themselves from Mayor Johnson’s staged “show of overwhelming force.”

Although sympathetic to citizens’ stated “petition for redress of grievances,” one commissioner expresses his intention to vote NO.

Federal refusal to end illegal immigration has produced “national awareness” of the impact to local governments and its citizens. Will local government AGAIN ignore its responsibility to address the grievances of its citizens? Just as in the 1960s, had government fulfilled their responsibility, there would have been no need for aggrieved citizens to seek help from “outsiders.” Citizens exercising their First Amendment rights of “redress of grievances” are entitled to use any assistance legally available.

It’s been said that “Insanity is doing the same things the same way and expecting a different outcome."

Does anyone think to avoid a repetition of 1960s violence by mimicking the behavior of 1960s unresponsive elected representatives? The apparent hope is that by ignoring citizens’ valid complaints long enough, they’ll stop complaining and “live with it.” Aside from shirking his obligation to serve citizens’ interests, he exacerbates already existing ill will and increasing citizens’ frustration and potential for violence.

If elected representatives are so fearful of duplicating “the 1960s violence,” why do they repeat behavior that led to conditions that produced them?

(5) “The figures aren’t exact.” One or two commissioners have cited “reluctance” to pass the resolution because "the figures aren't exact." Actually, the student count figures are not only precise but have already been submitted by HCBOE as well as validated and paid by the Tennessee Dept of Education.

What the “reluctants” REALLY mean is there’s no assurance that 100% of students in the English Language-Learners can be directly traced to illegal immigration.

It’s for exactly that reason that Migrant Education participation was substituted. That eligibility as a “migrant” student requires association with occupations routinely identified by government officials as “we need illegal aliens for this work because they’re jobs Americans won’t do” is a custom-made synonym for illegal immigration. The Migrant Education program defines these occupations as agriculture, migratory, temporary or seasonal agricultural workers, migratory dairy workers, fishing or migratory, temporary or seasonal fishermen (8).

Establishing accurate counts of students associated with illegal immigration would be an obvious solution for figures claimed as “not exact,” but that’s unlikely to happen. School administrators who would oversee collection of such numbers are notoriously resistant and repeatedly non-responsive and evasive, as experienced with this resolution. Considering the non-cooperation that would result, it’s obvious that the figures currently available are as accurate as they’re ever likely to be. Even "accurate figures" supplied by HCBOE aren't totally dependable.

For example, during the June/July school budget process for the current year, the commission received two "Actual" costs for the same item--Migrant Education program for the school year 2003-2004.
On the Federal Budget Summary, "actual" Title C budget: $53,496.00
On the 2-page Actual/Budget History for Title C (2001-2006): $39,565.58
A difference of $13,930.42 is hardly "pocket change."
Another example appeared on the same Title I C Actual/Budget History in the amounts budgeted for Social Security and Medicare. Accuracy of these two should be "no-brainers" (maximum of 1.45% for Medicare and 6.2% for FICA). The 2005-2006 budget wages compared to the previous year (2004-2005) show a decrease in base wages yet an increase in Medicare and FICA dollar amounts! Moreover, the FICA deduction for 2005-2006 is shown as 10% of budgeted wages (rather than a maximum of 6.2%) and the Medicare deduction for 2005-2006 is shown as 2.3% of budgeted wages (rather than a mamimum of 1.45%), an all-too-obvious error.
The two examples above beg the question of how to identify which of the two figures are "ready for prime time" when the primary information source submits two different dollar costs for the same expense.
In the matter of information-gathering, when educational administrators are asked for specific numbers of illegal alien students in their schools, they repeatedly insist "we don't ask if students are illegal because federal law prohibits it." Yet an 8/28 e-mail inquiry (and 9/13 follow-up) to Hamblen County Schools Superintendent Dale Lynch asking for the exact law/policy/code containing that prohibition that he's repeatedly cited remains unanswered. Similar inquiries of Gail Rice regarding her similar claims also remain unanswered. Both have proven to be very quick to make the claim but won’t even acknowledge requests for substantiation.

In contrast, replies from experts at both Center for Immigration Studies and Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) contradict both Dr. Lynch and Ms. Rice.

To the question: “Is there really a federal law that forbids asking or recording the immigration status of K-12 students? Or perhaps a written policy or procedure BASED on interpretation of the law?” they answered:

From Leah Durant, staff attorney at FAIR, Washington, DC:
"As for your question about whether school districts are prohibited from reporting the immigration status of their students, it appears that Federal law does not explicitly prohibit schools from gathering and reporting such data. As a matter of fact, other Federal laws (such as 8 U.S.C. section 1373) provide that state or local governments may NOT prohibit voluntary reporting to ICE, and further provide that those persons / agencies which enact policies to restrict their employees from voluntary cooperation are subject to fines, imprisonment or both. In the wake of Plyer however, many school districts have initiated such policies in an attempt to avoid possible law suits from pro-illegal alien groups."
=====================================================

From Mark Krikorian, Center for Immigration Studies, Washington, DC:
"No. The Supreme Court has ruled that until Congress says otherwise, localities have to educate illegal-alien children, but not that they can't ask. In fact, there are rules for kids attending high school who aren't legal permanent residents (i.e., on some kind of student visa), so some schools are asking."

As stated in the Objective section, this resolution’s purpose is to effect changes in public policy and/or public law by public discussion of the issue and its apparent costs. Current public debate and examination of the immigration issue (both legal and illegal) demands accurate information for decision-making. Regardless of how “not exact” anyone may claim accompanying figures are, none will deny that exact figures of students associated with illegal immigration aren’t currently available. It’s not a case of locating exact figures, because exact figures SIMPLY DON’T EXIST. Indeed, public officials have effected de facto policies to BLOCK collection of such figures on the insistence that “they don’t matter.”

Review of “best available” facts that direct public attention to apparent costs may be the next step to collecting better and/or different data. Any needed public policy changes WON’T HAPPEN UNLESS CALLS FOR CHANGES ARE HEARD (with this resolution being one of those calls)! Citizens are calling for those changes, and local officials should be next to “step up to the plate.” County commissioners who hear the calls and then hinder public attention and/or information-gathering are obstructing the process, whether they’re educational bureaucrats or elected officials. They’re making it clear to citizens that they want the current inequities to remain just as they are.

Local governments would do well to insist on collection of accurate figures for review. That school staff are quick to hide behind apparently nonexistent “federal laws” or use the 'race-card excuse' ("we educate all students regardless of race, religion, nationality or ethnicity") makes it clear that educational bureaucrats have helped created the problem and want to continue blocking public access to the facts. These same educational bureaucrats want the public to remain unaware that “illegal immigration students” offer the opportunity for obtaining more money for ever-increasing educational budgets.

Opposition to illegal immigration is an issue of law-compliance; playing the race card won't quash the public debate.


F. APPENDIX: Figures Requested of HCBOE. After initially receiving a similar “fill-in-the-blanks” form from Tom Lowe on Monday, September 19, Dr. Lynch called Commissioner Lowe to provide the requested information in a meeting on Friday, September 23. After review of the information provided in the meeting was largely irrelevant to what was requested, a second revised form (below) was provided to Dr. Lynch to more clearly specify what we wanted and make his reporting easier. The form was send on Tuesday, September 27 and again on Thursday, September 29. As of submitting this document for the agenda on Wednesday, October 5, the information was still outstanding.
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PLEASE PROVIDE ACCURATELY AND COMPLETELY THE ITEMS INDICATED
======================================================================
Numbers followed by a “?” were provided to Tom Lowe; we’d like to verify that numbers indicated are correct.

(1) Number of Students in the ELL program 2004-05 ___653?__________

(2) Per Pupil Expenditure and federal, state, local distribution for 2004-05.

PPE: $________________
Federal: ________________%
State: _________________%
Local: _________________%

(3) Cost of Salaries and Administration of the Migrant Student program, listing separately each staff position title, salary range and benefits package. This should include but not be limited to:

a. Gail Rice (or equivalent staff position), supervisor of the HCBOE migrant program.
What percentage of her time is allocated to the Migrant Student program? ___

b. Juan Cervantes, Migrant Coordinator

c. 3 Part-time Migrant teachers (as stated on the HCBOE website)

d. Also, the state DOE website mentions "Kimberly Fox." This person wasn’t mentioned to Tom Lowe--what is her function, position title and salary range for the three mentioned years?

(4) Cost of Salaries and Administration of the ELL program, listing separately each staff position title, salary range and benefits package. This should include but not be limited to:
a. Dr. Brenda Dean (or equivalent staff member), who oversees the English Language Learning program in Hamblen County **
What percentage of her time is allocated to the ELL program? _________

b. Each ELL teacher and percentage of time allocated to ELL
8 ELL teachers @ up to $55,000?_________________
3 Teacher Assistants @ $27,000?_________________

(5) Cost of benefits package for each staff position involved in administration of the ELL and Migrant programs.

2002-03: $ ___________
2003-04: $ 8607.73?___
2004-05: $ ___________

21 comments:

Jenn said...

I remember what the great cartoonist Thomas Nast once said about his portrayal of the infamous Boss Tweed in the papers, "I cannot make a man any greater fool that he makes himself."

This so richly applies to Commissioner Lowe with his pitful and embarrassing appearance on a local newsbroadcast this past week and to your blatherings about "illegal immigrants".

If we do pay some four million to educate children of illegal immigrants then should we not deduct from that total the amount the illegals pay in sales tax - and if have the numbers you touted living here then that amount is surely considerable?

Should we not deduct property tax paid by those renting homes, apartments and stores to illegals where they live and shop?

Should we not deduct social security tax as this is a tax for which few of the "illegals" will benefit when they are of the US retirement age?

And should we not deduct the lost tax revenue of business and industry dependent upon "illegals" to operate in Hamblen County?

In the last point I speak of agricultural, food processing, construction, restaurants, hotels, seasonal industry and many others who have no other source of employees. You and Commissioner Lowe never address this point because you cannot - it is the single reason these "illegals" have risked their lives to come to Hamblen County because there is work and there is hope. There are no Americans left to work in these difficult and lowpaying jobs.

If these businesses shut down or move and taxpayers have to pay the lost tax revenues, perhaps this bill would be better addressed to you than the federal government.

Our problems with free medical care didn't start with illegals. When TennCare was created and our state was flooded with TennCare recipients from Kentucky, the silence from your ilk was deafening, and the last time I checked Kentucky was not part of Mexico.

Finally, you (to use your lexicon) "blew a gasket" over Mayor Johnson's remarks about showing force to keep the peace at the August 13 tolerance for Latinos rally. I was at that rally, and those representing your view were a mixture of ignorant skinheads and racists. This is hardly who I would defend just to poke at the Mayor.

Ms. Noe, this is your blog. You can say as you see fit - unlike the local paper that you and Commissioner Lowe stick your tongues at like schoolchildren - however, rather than proposing silly and childish resolutions, why not offer sensible guest worker solutions that allow us to control immigration while maintaining the businesses that we have.

But I guess that is the kind of accountability that this blog isn't "4".

SJM--AZ said...

In replying to this post, I've included "Jenn's" original excerpt in CAPS followed by my rebuttal.

I REMEMBER WHAT THE GREAT CARTOONIST THOMAS NAST ONCE SAID ABOUT HIS PORTRAYAL OF THE INFAMOUS BOSS TWEED IN THE PAPERS, "I CANNOT MAKE A MAN ANY GREATER FOOL THAT HE MAKES HIMSELF."

After reading your post, please note that you've fallen into the most obvious trap there is: defending the illegal immigration costs to taxpayers by citing the dependence of businesses on illegal alien workers. Commissioner Lowe's resolution addresses the K-12 illegal immigration costs; those K-12 students aren't employed by business.
The so-called "need for illegal alien workers" doesn't require their children to be admitted to the US and be enrolled in our schools. If business is so needful of illegal alien employees and feels the need to school their children, those businesses should bear the costs.

Surely you don't believe the "next generation" will continue to provide the "cheap labor" you depend on. Not so--those grown children not only refuse to be "cheap labor," they want to attend college at resident tuition rates and after attaining a degree don't want to be cooks or housekeepers. Texas is full of such illegal alien college graduates.

THIS SO RICHLY APPLIES TO COMMISSIONER LOWE WITH HIS PITFUL AND EMBARASSING APPEARANCE ON A LOCAL NEWSBROADCAST THIS PAST WEEK AND TO YOUR BLATHERINGS ABOUT "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS."

Do you mean PITIFUL, Jenn?

Neither Commissioner Lowe nor Commissioner Noe are ignorant enough to use the oxymoronic term "illegal immigrants." Clearly you're not aware of Title 8 United States Code, because it defines an "immigrant" in Sections 1101-Definitions. By definition, an immigrant is automatically 'legal;' an immigrant has applied to the US government for permission to entier the country, successfully completed criminal background checks and health screenings, and has been issued a valid visa. The lack of a valid visa is what makes an alien "illegal," posession of a valid visa precludes their being "illegal."

Your "illegal immigrant" reveals that your positions are based on political expediency or political correctness rather than facts. Perhaps the Nast quote applies to yourself.

What's the problem with illegal aliens, you ask? They only come here to work, you say. Here's the problem with that--like your other claims, you can't prove that. And therein lies the problem with illegal aiens--you don't know who they are, where they came from, why they entered the US illegally, or what they've done since they've been here. Further, the businesses who recruit them, fit them with false documents and bring them here don't care who they're bringing in.

Incidentally, your tactic of ridiculing and intimidating those with the courage to publicly discuss the illegal immigration issue is obvious and much-overused. Members of the "open borders lobby" are desperately trying to hush-up the recent public discussion and expressed outrage over illegal immigration. You've obviously chosen "ridicule." But it's too late to quash Americans expressing their outrage--that genie won't return to the bottle.

IF WE DO PAY SOME FOUR MILLION TO EDUCATE CHILDREN OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THEN SHOULD WE NOT DEDUCT FROM THAT TOTAL THE AMOUNT THE ILLEGALS PAY IN SALES TAX - AND IF HAVE THE NUMBERS YOU TOUTED LIVING HERE THEN THAT AMOUNT IS SURELY CONSIDERABLE?

Jenn, if you see nothing hypocritical about using Commissioner Noe's "blatherings" to "prove" or even give credence to your claims, both she and I certainly do! No indeed. To prove your claims, find your own statistics, and verifiable ones. .

The dollars in the resolution are provable and have been validated by the State of Tennessee, which is more than can be said for all the "sales tax" you claim is paid by illegal aliens. Moreover, any sales tax illegal aliens pay (just as tourists pay) doesn't change an indeniable fact--they're illegal aliens who have no right to be in the US. Surely you've heard of Mohammed Atta, leader of the 9/11 Islamic terrors? The sales tax he paid for restaurant meals and hotel bills didn't change the fact that he was an illegal alien. The same is true of all illegal aliens, regardless of where they supposedly come from.

SHOULD WE NOT DEDUCT PROPERTY TAX PAID BY THOSE RENTING HOMES, APARTMENTS AND STORES TO ILLEGALS WHERE THEY LIVE AND SHOP? That I enable GM to pay corporate income taxes with the purchase of my new Buick doesn't make the car buyer a corporation. Nor does paying rent make a renter a property owner. "Paying taxes" doesn't make an illegal alien a legal immigrant or US citizen. Surely you can do better than this.

Actually, Jenn, what should be done with those who "rent homes, apartments and stores to illegals" is prosecute them for the crime they commit by violating Title 8, United States Code Section 1324, otherwise known as "aiding and abetting."

SHOULD WE NOT DEDUCT SOCIAL SECURITY AS THIS IS A TAX FOR WHICH FEW OF THE ILLEGALS WILL BENEFIT WHEN THEY ARE OF THE US RETIREMENT AGE? You're quite wrong on this, and illegal aliens know it even if you claim not to. Any illegal alien who subsequently attains legal status gets credit for wages/FICA taxes paid while an illegal alien, even if they committed identity theft by using someone else's SSN. The means for their attaining legal status include participation in a "guestworker plan" that you advocate establishing, marriage to a citizen or legal immigrant, legalization by "piggybacking" on the legal status/citizenship of a family member (such as an "anchor baby"), a US "totalization treaty" with their home country, or participation in an amnesty for illegal aliens.

AND SHOULD WE NOT DEDUCT THE LOST TAX REVENUE OF BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY DEPENDENT UPON "ILLEGALS" TO OPERATE IN HAMBLEN COUNTY? "...business and industry dependent upon 'illegals?' You're admitting that these firms are welfare-dependent--CORPORATE WELFARE. These businesses are just as parasitic on American taxpayers and the US economy as the individual welfare person that you apparently have in mind from living on TennCare. There's no difference whatever. Individuals live off taxpayers' money going to welfare payments, and such businesses receive taxpayer subsidies in the form of costs normally paid by employees' wages now shifted to taxpayers.

These corporate welfare recipients (and their special interest lobby called the National Chamber of Commerce) were visible and vocal opponents of Prop. 200 here in Arizona, and for obvious reasons: these "business and industry dependent upon illegals" stood to lose their welfare benefits, and they protested just as loudly as the people Rev. Todd Stinnett of Grace Baptist Church calls the "lazy Anglos who don't want to work but just collect their government handouts."

IN THE LAST POINT I SPEAK OF AGRICULTURE, FOOD PROCESSING, CONSTRUCTION, RESTAURANTS, HOTELS, SEASONAL INDUSTRY AND MANY OTHERS WHO HAVE NO OTHER SOURCE OF EMPLOYEES. YOU AND COMMISSIONER LOWE NEVER ADDRESS THIS POINT BECAUSE YOU CANNOT--IT IS THE SINGLE REASON THESE ILLEGALS HAVE RISKED THEIR LIVES TO COME TO HAMBLEN COUNTY BECAUSE THERE IS WORK AND THERE IS HOPE. THERE ARE NO AMERICANS LEFT TO WORK IN THESE DIFFICULT AND LOWPAYING JOBS.

The "single reason" illegal aliens come to Hamblen County (or anywhere else) for jobs is because of corporate welfare-dependent businesses that refuse to hire Americans for whom they don't receive the "taxpayer-subsidized" corporate welfare benefits to augment the cheap wages businesses pay to illegal aliens. In addition, hiring illegal aliens for cash wages "off the books" enables the "cheap labor business" to evade taxes on this income. They come because businesses hire them. "No Americans left?" Come now, Jenn. Who did these jobs before illegal aliens invaded? No Americans willing to work in construction, seasonal industry, food processing, janitorial work and others? Baloney, Jenn. Americans WERE doing those jobs within the last 20 years until your corporate welfare-dependent businesses refused to hire them in preference for illegal aliens for whom they avoid legal wages, safe working conditions and taxable corporate income.


IF THESE BUSINESSES SHUT DOWN OR MOVE AND TAXPAYERS HAVE TO PAY THE LOST TAX REVENUES, PERHAPS THIS BILL WOULD BE BETTER ADDRESSED TO YOU THAN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Would you have us believe that restaurants, hotels, construction, landscape firms and agriculture will pack up, bag and baggage and move to Mexico? Or China? We all know that these businesses wouldn't shut down if they were deprived of illegal aliens. Their owners would continue to operate profitably, although not at their current obscene profit levels. That the owner of a landscape service must keep their Mercedes Benz for 3 years rather than trading after 2 doesn't constitute economic hardship.

And don't believe for one minute that you're kidding us, because businesses don't share with their customers the savings they reap from employing illegal aliens. Here's an example: When I lived in Southern California, entering a McDonalds meant you dealt with illegal alien employees who spoke little English. When I made a trip to Wisconsin with my niece and entered a McDonalds in Sparta, WI, I dealt with American employees (teenagers and senior citizens) who spoke English. I bought the same Big Mac in both places for the same price. Would you have me believe that the Wisconsin McDonalds owner continued to operate his business at a loss because he paid legal wages to legal Americans? Who do you think you're kidding?

(And don't ask me know I knew they were illegal; I'm a native Californian and have lived my entire life in border states--we know illegal aliens when we see them.)

You may have heard the "$5 head of lettuce" scam, and that's equally ridiculous--Researchers at Iowa State proved it in 1996, If you're up to reading the study "How Much Is that Tomato in the Window?; Retail Produce Prices Without Illegal Farmworkers," you'll find it on the Center for Immigration Studies website at
http://www.cis.org/articles/1996/back296.htm

Increased operating costs of any business are be passed on to their customers, which is what SHOULD happen in a market economy. If customers aren't willing to pay the true cost (without taxpayer-subsidized operating costs known as "corporate welfare," the company goes out of business and should. If I don't eat strawberries, why should I be required to subsidize strawberry growers' operating costs? I don't eat in fast-food restaurants; why should I be expected to pay for their "cheap labor employees?"

This "lost tax revenue" is baloney. Elimination of the "underground economy" operating tax-free via illegal alien employees would not only add to taxable revenues, but would eliminate the "skim" of untaxed money via remitted wages--$20 billion annually to Mexico alone. At 7% sales tax rates, that alone is $1.4 million in lost sales tax revenue.

Have you read the report documenting this and other economic losses created by illegal immigration and the underground economy by the Bear-Stearns investment house printed in Barrons Magazine earlier this year? If you're strong enough to be proven wrong and provide your e-mail address, I'll forward it.

OUR PROBLEMS WITH FREE MEDICAL CARE DIDN'T START WITH ILLEGALS. WHEN TENNCARE WAS CREATED AND OUR STATE WAS FLOODED WITH TENNCARE RECIPIENTS FROM KENTUCKY, THE SILENCE FROM YOUR ILK WAS DEAFENING, AND THE LAST TIME I CHECKED KENTUCKY WAS NOT PART OF MEXICO. You'll have to provide proof of this; conjuring up "statistics" or "scenarios" out of thin air won't cut it.

FINALLY, YOU (TO USE YOUR LEXICON) "BLEW A GASKET" OVER MAYOR JOHNSON'S REMARKS ABOUT SHOWING FORCE TO KEEP THE PEACE AT THE AUGUST 13 TOLERANCE FOR LATINOS RALLY. I WAS AT THAT RALLY, AND THOSE REPRESENTING YOUR VIEW WERE A MIXTURE OF IGNORANT SKINHEADS AND RACISTS. THIS IS HARDLY WHO I WOULD DEFEND JUST TO POKE FUN AT THE MAYOR. Jenn, you've chosen the "ridicule" tool, and Mayor Johnson chose intimidation. Nor do I believe that Commissioner Noe is "poking fun" at the Mayor--she expressed outrage at the money wasted in police resources for such a charade. For such a so-called "emergency," the commission wasn't notified or consulted--only two commissioners!

Johnson's "show of overwhelming force" was nothing but a carefully staged and choreographed set-up by city "powers that be" to "prove" that the Tennessee Volunteer Minutemen had suddenly been "infiltrated" by hate-groups and the Klan. The TVM held open meetings at the public library with anyone invited to attend, including the press. When did you ever hear of hate-groups or the Klan holding public meetings with the press invited? When the TVM held a public rally in July, where were the KKK and "hate-groups" touted by Johnson? They weren't present; the only disturbance was created by YOUR ilk--people who support illegal aliens. If you don't like the "ignorant skinheads and racists," Jenn, tell Mayor Johnson who chose them.

With one exception, the Tennessee Volunteer Minutemen (of whom Commissioner Noe isn't even a member and never attended any meetings), intentionally stayed away from the rally--they knew it was a set-up when they read Thursday's story of "received information" by Chief Overholt.

MS. NOE, THIS IS YOUR BLOG. YOU CAN SAY AS YOU SEE FIT- UNLIKE THE LOCAL PAPER THAT YOU AND COMMISSIONER LOWE STICK YOUR TONGUES AT LIKE SCHOOLCHILDREN - HOWEVER, RATHER THAN PROPOSING SILLY AND CHILDISH RESOLUTIONS, WHY NOT OFFER SENSIBLE GUEST WORKER SOLUTIONS THAT ALLOW US TO CONTROL IMMIGRATION WHILE MAINTAINING THE BUSINESSES THAT WE HAVE.

"Silly and childish resolutions, is it?" There you go again with the ridicule strategy, desperately trying to quash public knowledge of the costs of "corporate welfare" to businesses, otherwise known as illegal immigration.

Surely you're not defending the so-called accuracy and integrity of the Citizen-Tribune? Consider just a few of their most ludicrous stories in recent months:

June 30, 2005, "County Commission raises tax rate." This gem of a story by Bobbie Young covered a meeting where the commission didn't even vote on a tax rate increase, much less pass one!

July 13 2005, "Arizona Minutemen deny any connection with 'Two Feathers." Rob Moore did this one, apparently trying to make a story out of a so-called disavowal by Arizona Minutemen founder Chris Simcox of Carl Whitaker and the Tennessee Volunteer Minutemen. Only two errors by Moore: (1) There is no such organization called Arizona Minutemen, and never has been. Had Moore made the phone call he claimed, he would have learned this by simply listening to the name answered on the phone, and (2) Whitaker's TVM is a recognized "chapter" of Chris Simcox's organization. Go to their website and send an inquiry asking for their chapters in Tennessee; they'll refer you to Carl Twofeathers Whitaker and the Tennessee Volunteer Minutemen. Moore duplicated his error in one of his later write-ups on the "Hispanic Rally."

October 9 2005, "Commission to discuss funding center." Bobbie Young gaffes again in her second paragraph: "The commission’s finance committee, which includes all commissioners..." The Commission's Finance Committee has 8 members, not 14. Members of all commission committees are listed on the county's webpage for her easy reference had she bothered to check her facts.

And their Grand Prize...

May 12 2005, "CDC: No Hispanic diseases in county." I have to say this was Bobbie Moore's finest hour. Had Tom Lowe used the phrase "Hispanic diseases," you and the rest of your ILK would have screamed "racist" to the rooftops. Even after written notification from the Special Assistant for Communications, National Center for Infectious Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that CDC not only didn't make such a statement, that there is no CDC classification as "Hispanic diseases," the publishers of the Citizen-Trash wouldn't acknowledge their error, much less correct it. When asked whether she bothers to verify that a paper someone waves in his hand does indeed say what the "waver" claims, Bobbie Young's response was "our paper is a tape recording of the meeting; we report whatever people say."

Apparently the "tape recorder" broke down when Carl Twofeathers Whitaker spoke on June 23; she only reported that he "spoke about "illegal aliens and businesses hiring them" for the 5 minutes Carl spoke. Very curious.

After the several times I've corrected your errors on this blog, the appropriate quote to apply to you is from Will Rogers: "Better that YOU remain silent with people suspecting you're a fool that to open YOUR mouth and remove all doubt."

Linda said...

Jenn,

The sole issue is illegal immigration and the costs associated with illegal immigration.

It would be helpful in our discussions if you kept on topic instead of making totally false statements and mixing in personal attacks as you have done.

I am not a member of any racist group. Your use of smear tactics rather than reasoned discussion of the issue exposes the utter weakness of your argument and the type of debater you are.

I speak my own opinions. You were at the rally that is mentioned in the resolution. I was not. I did not make any public statement about the rally or about Mayor Johnson.

Setting aside your factual inaccuracy and your personal attacks, your argument appears to be that employment illegalities and illegal immigration should be ignored or winked at if certain businesses benefit.

It appears that you have invented and want to apply a mathematical/ business formula to the issue of illegal immigration--instead of applying the law.

You have decided that certain businesses need and benefit from using illegal aliens. You then say that because these businesses benefit from illegal immigration, we should not enforce the immigration laws.

This argument totally, and perhaps deliberately, ignores the other side of the equation--if somebody benefits, somebody else loses.

If we don't enforce the immigration laws, then other taxpayers, other citizens, as well as businesses that do not use illegals will have to take up the slack and pay the costs for medical, legal, educational and other government services for these illegal aliens.

Try to keep focused. This is about illegal immigration and illegal immigration costs to citizens of the United States.

If you support illegal aliens and want to pay the associated costs, continue to promote illegal immigration and continue with your efforts to persuade others to do so.

Perhaps you would like to come to the county commission meeting on October 20th and explain to everyone--with proven facts and figures--the net monetary benefits of illegal immigration to this community.

I look forward to seeing you and hearing you publicly take a stand in favor of illegal immigration.

Gabriella said...

Jerry Clower used to remark that there were many people "educated beyond their intelligence".

I think this applies to Commissioners' Noe and Lowe.

In reading Jenn's remarks and Commissioner Noe's reaction, it seems obvious that Ms. Noe is extremely educated so as to dangle statistic after statistic after statistic without dangling the appropriate grasp on this issue.

She says that if businesses want to hire immigrants then businesses should pay for their education. Ms. Noe, businesses ARE paying. Who is bearing the brunt of the cost of operating the schools? It is not the Hamblen County Commission. It is the property taxes paid by business. She is forgetting who is the customer.

Has Ms. Noe or Commissioner Lowe lifted a single finger to expand the tax base of Hamblen County by recruiting industry? Hardly. They spend the bulk of their time antagonizing those that pay to educate the children of Hamblen County be they of immigrants or otherwise.

It takes no courage to complain and gripe about immigration in this country as Ms. Noe alleges. These people prevent no threat at the ballot box. I do not consider Commissioner Lowe or Carl "Two Feathers" Whittaker to be the great patron saints of this country.

If these immigrants were not, as you say, "illegal", would not they still have their children educated by our school system? And would we not bear the cost of that education?

You would prosecute those who rent shelter to immigrants according to your diatribe. How is a the owner of an apartment complex in any better position to know the legal status of a person than the hospital or the grocery store or you?

This is the type of sheer stupidity that those who search for a sensible solution to this have to face. Education beyond intelligence - to use the phrase.

You allege that businesses who employ immigrants are parasites. Of course, if you bother to learn just a bit about American history, you might note that few call those who built the Transcontinental Railroad "parasites". Most credit them with building the greatest marvel known to mankind.

Who actually performed the labor to build this great railway, Ms. Noe?

Immigrants - Chinese from the west and Eastern Europeans from the East.

I am sure there were (to use your idioms) "anchor babies", "illegals", "jackpot babies". But there were also people working under deplorable conditions - all immigrants, and certainly most did not visas or green cards.

You go on to chastise businesses are corporate welfare recipients because they employ immigrants - another libel. Again, I would ask you and Commissioner Lowe and your advisor Carl "Two Feathers" where these businesses would replace those people if you are successful to run them off? That is one point you never address? If you can, please address it in a forum such as a Commission meeting so we all can learn what you have been so educated as to know.

Tell the small business owner who is operating a hotel or restaurant or farm or mowing service or paint crew that they are simply corporate welfare mothers mooching off the good of the Hamblen County Commission. Tell them they should be arrested for employing or sheltering immigrants. Tell them where they can hire locals who will work cleaning rooms, washing dishes, picking fruit, mowing grass.

No, I suppose it is easier to quote some statistics that to educate their young will cost us four million and to ask for a RICO investigation and to tout useless resolutions.

One wonders if Commissioner Lowe knows a RICO from a Ricky Ricardo, but one hates to guess.

You may not eat in fast food restaurants - though 2 paragraphs earlier you mentioned two experiences you had in a McDonald's(perhaps it is not fast food now)- but if you attempt to actually operate a business and not give advice and threats to those who do, you might sing a different tune. And I would venture that the tomatoes you bought in Food Lion or the room you stayed in Gatlinburg or the plate used in O'Charley's or the the neighbor's lawn was not either picked, cleaned or cut by teenagers or senior citizens.

Finally, your quote from is Will Rogers is actually that of Abraham Lincoln. A good researcher would know better.

Throughout American history we have had waves of immigration and throughout American history the beauty of our country is that we have welcomed them and educated their young. And this nation prospered for it. Had Commissioner Lowe been commissioned to rewrite the words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty, I can only think that a great amount of whiteout would surely be applied. How sad.

I find little record to note that County Commissions sent previous presidents the bill when they educated Polish children in Chicago or Italians in New York or Chinese in San Francisco.

Yes, we have a problem with the overload on government services by the total of our population and we need a sensible guest worker plan. I do not disagree there is a problem with our borders.

However, intolerance is not and never has been the answer.

SJM--AZ said...

Gabriella,
The first thing I expect of a so-called intelligent person is NOT that they "know what they're talking about," but THAT THEY KNOW TO WHOM THEY'RE TALKING. You've earned failed

I am SJM--AZ, not "linda!" I've labelled my comments prominently, and yet you attribute my remarks to Commissioner Noe!

Again and again, you claim I'm said or "alleged" things I haven't, presumably to engage me in argument.

Quite bluntly, it's not worth my time to reply. Your writing is so incoherent and jumbled that following your thinking is impossible. Even if I could follow it, I'm not at all sure I'd even want to go there.

Just as Jenn, you substitute personal attacks and insults for facts and coherent thinking. Disagreeing with someone doesn't justify personal attacks and insults.

And then after these insults, your hypocritical "intolerance is not and never has been the answer" shows more intolerance than anything else.

The "tolerance" you speak of applies to those who disagree with you.

Incidentally, there are no "words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty." Never have been. I recommend you engage in the "research" you claim I'm so deficient

Voice of Reason said...

Incidentally, there are no "words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty." Never have been. I recommend you engage in the "research" you claim I'm so deficient

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Linda said...

As I have said and as I will obviously have to repeat, the issue is "illegal immigration and illegal immigration costs."

It's about upholding the current immigration laws of the United States.

It's about the costs to citizens of the United States as a result of illegal entry into the U.S.

That's what the resolution is about. Awakening consciousness and getting officials to take action.

Jenn, Gabriella/Voice of Reason: If you support illegal immigration, then take that position.

Just remember that the issue is "illegal immigration and illegal immigration costs" to Hamblen County and the United States.

SJM--AZ said...

As "Jenn" hands off to"Gabriella," and then "Gabriella" to "Voice of Reason," each one takes "her" place in the Will Rogers "Removed All Doubt" club.

Neither Gabriella nor Voice of Reason seem to have learned that SJM-AZ knows what she is talking about. When you throw these phony mantras around, I'm likely to catch you and I'll publicly disclose your scam to everyone.

Go to the Statue of Liberty website at http://www.nps.gov/stli/. If you enter into their website Search facility any of the keywords of your so-called "inscription," you'll get "not found," proving that Gabrialla and Voice of Reason are WRONG in their claim that this is inscribed on the Statue of Liberty.

That means you either don't know what you're talking about or that you're intentionally lying in the hope I'll believe you. Which of the two doesn't matter to me because I now know that you peddle lies as if they were true.

If you're interesed in learning the facts, enter the author of the poem Emma Lazarus into google or yahoo or whatever.

One of the sites you'll find is http://www.libertystatepark.com/emma.htm that states of the poem that it is "A poem by Emma Lazarus is graven on a tablet within the pedestal on which the statue stands." One more place testifying that Gabriella and Voice of Reason are WRONG.

Another of the sites http://www.jwa.org/exhibits/wov/lazarus/ also tells a romanticized story that glosses over several pertinent facts, but makes clear that your "inscribed on the Statue of Liberty" is nothing but scam.

Now here are the facts:
Emma Lazarus was the daughter of wealthy elite New York Jews.
1883-- wrote her poem "The New Colussus" in protest to the pogroms occuring in Russia
1884--cornerstone laid for the statue on Bedloe's Island in NY Harbor
1886--Pedestal construction completed and the Statue dedicated
1887--Emma Lazarus died
1903--Friends of Emma Lazarus commissioned a placque with AN EXCERPT, NOT THE ENTIRE POEM. Upon its completion, they dedicated it in a quiet and private ceremony

If you've ever visited the Museum inside the the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty (as I have--three times) you know as I do that the placque is one of thousands of museum pieces in rooms in the pedestal.

Note that it's 17 years after the statue was erected and 16 years after her death; clearly the statue wasn't designed for the poem, nor the poem for the statue.

We can thank the news media for spinning the fiction that linked the poem to the statue.

"Gabriella" and "Voice of Reason" (as well as other pro-illegal immigration allies) might beware of repeating such spin in the future--you never know when you might encounter another knowledgable individual who won't be so polite as I've been in exposing your ignorance and/or lies.

Gabriella said...

My point is simply this.

This nation's history is rich with examples of immigrants and each one of them were offered - and often prospered with - a public education. In turn, many of these immigrants paid back our country with countless contributions to medicine, science, engineering - and with their lives in the time of war.

Our nation didn't fail to educate them before, and we shouldn't fail to educate them today.

For once, let's drop the finger wagging and face this simple fact - legal or illegal - these immigrants are here providing goods and services not otherwise provided by local residents. I think in this whole debate, no one, not Commissioners Lowe and Noe, Carl Two Feathers, the Minutemen have been able to explain where their labor would be replaced.

They only complain about what these immigrants receive. They are profoundly silent on what they contribute.

So if tomorrow the federal government declared these people "legal" and thus removing the same tired refrain of "illegals", their children would have to be educated - as their ancestors and our ancestors - all immigrants alike - were so educated.

Please Commissioner Noe, work with the same diligence you bring to accumulating statistics to recruit industry into Hamblen County that in turn create good jobs that in turn employ local residents that in turn provides the tax base to educate ALL of our citizens.

In so doing we maintain the proud tradition of our country.

Jenn Simoneaux said...

Yes, Ms. Noe, I favor immigration. Do you?

I would not suggest that we open the borders and have a tsunami of people thrust into this country.

Neither would I adopt your view or Tom Lowe's or Professor Whittaker that we should run them off.

I favor a guest worker visa system that allows those gainfully employed to work for 2 years and to set a federal limit annually.

Why? These people are here working in jobs nobody else will do. Again that is so obvious when you look at who works in the tomato fields, the motel laundry, the day labor yards.

You and Mr. Lowe and the esteemed 2 Feathers and whoever sjm-az purports to be propose no solution and even admit that your time wasting resolutions are nothing more than a publicity ploy.

Are you in favor of closing businesses dependent on immigrant labor?

Please answer one time to a question several people are asking: Who takes their place after you run them off?

Ms. Noe, take a stand - and give an answer.

SJM--AZ said...

Ah, So "Jenn" is Jenn Simoneaux! I've sought you for several months and lo and behold, here you are!

When the Five Rivers Herald published my "Don't be fooled by Immigration Reform Scams," you wrote a Letter to the Editor so full of errors that refuting them provided enough material to constitute an additional column. Unfortunately the Herald closed down its "Hamblen County Edition" before my "ad-hoc" column was printed. Luckily I saved the column and will post it here for all to see how your claims contradict the facts.

Ms. Simoneaux' original LTE follows the =========, with my column immediately following. Like Gabriella and Voice of Reason, facts easily located make mincemeat of your mantras and emotional rhetoric.

I have a nasty habit of concluding that people who substitute mantras and "factoids" for truth will misrepresent and lie at any opportunity, and I never again regard their comments as credible.
===================================
Dear Editor
Your lead (and un-bylined) colun in the May 18 Five Rivers Herald about immigration utilizes as many nonexisten facts and phrases as you claim only the other side employs.

You indicate that immigrants built this country but illegal immigrants did not. Obviously in framing your article to fit your personal opinion you did not bother to consult with history. The vast majority of immigrants that settled in the US did so long before limits were placed on where immigrants came and under what conditions they were accepted. Do you think the vast numbers of Chinese and Irish who were brough to this nation for labor to build, for example, the Transcontinental Railway had the appropriate visas, stamps, affadavits and I-94 forms?

There are no credible "Latino" group alliances with Palestinian groups or other anti-Semitic organizations as you would allege. Naturally, it is fashionable to allege that those of a nationality you have some difficulty are associate with terrorists. It is, however, not necessarily accurate.

I note that you make no recommendations in your piece, only shrill arguments. If you want illegal immigrants deported, then recognize the problem left behind. These immigrants illegal and oherwise are here to perform work in as fruit pickers; chicken cutters; tobacco laborers, table bussers-all of the menial and unskilled labor that without them would go begging.

Who would perform that work? Without them, much of those industries would either move across the border of simply become nonexistent. Gone with them are the tax revenues that were generated for the population as a whole. This hardly seems an effective "fiscal policy of thrifty taxpayers."

Some sort of guest worker program is necessary to allow thos to either enter or remain in this country so as to perform work tha is available but employers cannot fill with the existing labor pool. Simply sending people packing is as shallow as those who espouse it.

I am tired of nameless people (such as the author of this article) who really don't understand-or say they don't - that this nation is a great melting pot of diverse cultures. The answer to whether some of the contributions to our cultural diversity comes from those entering this country illegally is complex at best.

However, intolerance isn't and never has been the solution.

Jean Simoneaux
Morristown, Tennessee

***** MY REPLY COLUMN ******
TITLE: Don't be fooled by "Immigration Reform" Scams

COLUMN TITLE: Reply to "Simoneaux Letter Scam"



As author of the "Don't be fooled by Immigration Reform Scams" Series, I'm happy to reply to Ms. Simoneaux' letter.

Nowhere do I write "... immigrants built this country but illegal immigrants did not." What I did write is "IMMIGRANTS built the country; ILLEGAL ALIENS did not."

Either "immigrant" or "illegal alien" are accurate. Nothing complex about that. "Illegal immigrants" is an oxymoron.

The first column ("Call it by the rightful name--Illegal Alien") outlined federal immigration law (US Code Title 8, Chapter 12, subchapter I section 1101), There's no such thing as an "illegal immigrant." Individuals become "immigrants" by applying for permission to enter the US, passing criminal background checks and health screenings, and receiving a visa from the US government. One can't be "illegal" while holding a valid visa.

"did the Chinese and Irish ...building...the Transcontinental Railway have appropriate visas, stamps, affadavits and I-94 forms?"

Actually, I "consulted with history" regularly when researching my ancestors' arrival in the US, and collected my great-grandparents' emigration and immigration documents--emigrantion cards, their tax payment stamped by the local Prussian civil official, their birth registration, the physical exams and clearance at the port of Stettin prior to boarding the ship, their ship's passenger manifest, their entry cards completed at New York's Castle Gardens, and naturalization papers. The immigration process back then was different but no less formidable.

I assure Ms. Simoneaux I do believe that most of those immigrants from Ireland, China or whereever complied with immigration laws in effect at the time. The true immigrants who built this country weren't border-jumpers; they crossed the ocean in ships. Few ship captains were foolish enough to risk losing the masters' papers that were their livelihood.

As for the "I-94 form," I insist that Ms. Simoneaux "consult with history." Immigrants who built the Transcontinental Railway would have arrived on or before its completion in 1869. The Immigration & Naturalization Service (the agency issuing the I-94 form) wasn't even established until 1906, 37 years after the Railroad was completed!.

It would have been nearly impossible for such immigrants to hold a non-existent document issued by a then non-existent agency. Ms. Simoneaux's question exposes an abysmal lack of knowledge on the immigration issue. Before 1906, immigrants were processed by the Bureau of Customs, who of course wouldn't have issued "INS" forms.

"No credible Latino group alliances with Palestinian groups or other anti-Semitic organizations...?" That would be wrong; the "Aztlan" website www.aztlan.net of the Mexican "Reconquista" movement openly declares alliance and sympathy with Hamas. Perhaps she isn't aware of the November 2003 arrest of a Mexican consul to Lebanon for selling false Mexican passports to Lebanese nationals (Modesto Bee, November 13 2003). Or that an Iranian smuggling ring for illegal aliens was exposed operating near the Mexican border last week? (WorldNet Daily, June 1 2005).

She would also be wrong in that I make no recommendations; they're found in "The 'We can't deport 12 million illegal aliens' Scam." It's a well-known concept (Congressman Tom Tancredo is only one supporter), but Mark Krikorian's report "Downsizing Illegal Immigration" on the Center for Immigration Studies website outlines a very rational and orderly process. And much less expensive with illegal aliens paying for their own "exit" rather than US taxpayers.

"Chicken Little" hysterical cries of economic doom without illegal immigration are shopworn and stale. The primary economic disaster would focus on the groups I suspect Ms. Simoneaux is affiliated with: (1) Immigration Lawyers or (2) non-profit groups in the "immigration industry," funded by public money via government grants. While these two so-called industries would collapse without illegal aliens, I certainly wouldn't miss them. Taxpayers would save by eliminating from the public trough people who use public money but perform no useful service. Voila, the free market system at work!

Without taxpayer-subsidized "cheap labor," employers would be forced to pay living wages. Does Simoneaux really expect us to believe restaurants, hotels, construction and landscaping companies would totally close their doors? Or more ludicrously, move to China? These industries would continue profitable operations, albeit not at today's huge profit levels. It's hardly economic disaster when a landscape company owner or restauranteur must keep his "Ultra-SUV" or Mercedes Benz for 3 years instead of trading it after 2.

I also insist that Ms. Simoneaux "consult with math." Tax revenues won't disappear at all. Not only will wages be higher (as will the taxes derived), but those wages will be "on the books" rather than the "cash under the table" wages currently paid to illegals. And $40 billion in estimated illegal wage remittances will remain in the US economy rather than be sent abroad.

And ending illegal immigration will largely eliminate the underground economy that former IRS Commissioner Donald Alexander estmates leads to $311 billion in uncollected taxes every year. (WorldNet Daily, January 3 2005) That's billion with a B, Ms. Simoneaux!

"Whether..contributions to our cultural diversity comes from those entering this country illegally is complex at best?" Illegal immigration isn't a "cultural exchange program," Ms. Simoneaux. Employers hire illegal aliens to fatten their wallets, not expand their "cultural diversity."

I thank Ms. Simoneaux for her letter; it will be useful in future columns to illustrate that my assessment of opposition rhetoric and strategy is 100% accurate. Her letter follows a predictable pattern: establish "credibility" with a few technical buzz-words ("visas, affadavits, I-94 form") that crumble into dust upon examination, then cite "factoids" claimed to be true only because they've been repeated ad nauseum ("without illegal labor our entire economy would crumble"), and finally play her "Ace:" accuse anyone opposed to illegal immigration of "intolerance" (or racist, bigot, anti-immigrant, hateful and the rest of the litany).

She offers not one rational or provable fact to support her "position.".

Ms. Simoneaux did get one thing right: I'm very intolerant of being manipulated and deceived, and of hearing that the issue is too "complex" for me to understand. That's why the "Don't be fooled by Immigration Reform Scams" was written for Americans new to the issue. Facts are easily understood when they're free of inflammatory and unsubstantiated rhetoric

S. J. Miller
Phoenix, AZ

SJM--AZ said...

Commissioner Noe, "Jenn" and "Jenn Simoneaux" are one and the same person. Earlier this year, she wrote a Letter to the Editor under the name "Jean Simoneaux" so "Jenn" may have many other names as well.

Actually, "Jenn" may be "Gabriella" and "Voice of Reason" as well. All three have that habit of throwing out "factoids" and "mantras" as the basis for their "open borders" agenda (although they deny it, that's really what they favor).

Linda said...

Jean,

The issue is "illegal" immigration and "illegal" immigration costs to Hamblen County.

I support "legal" immigration into the United States.

I do not support "illegal" aliens entering the country.

Is that so hard to understand?

Who takes their (illegal aliens) place?

The jobs you cite (construction, hotels, restaurants, agriculture) are peculiarly jobs that are local and for the most part, thankfully, can not go overseas.

Without recourse to cheap illegal labor, these businesses would pay minimum wage or more to legal workers.

These businesses operated before the huge influx of illegals.

I have no doubt they would adapt to the employment of legal workers again.

And I'm sure some of them have never resorted to the use of illegal aliens.

And when you are asked whether you support "illegal immigration," please do not respond to a different question by saying, as you did, "Yes, I support immigration."

Your answer leaves out the key word in all this--- "illegal."

Your answer makes it clear that you not only support those who enter this country legally, but that you also support entry into this country by those (illegal aliens) who cross our borders in violation of the laws of the United States.

Voice of Reason said...

Whoa!!!! Who said I was for illeagal imigration?? All I was doing was pointing out that there is an inscrption on the Statue of Liberty.....always has been always will be.
I am opposed to illegal imigration and believe that something should be done. However I believe that the route that is being taken is the wrong one. Pressure should be put on the Federal Authorities to enforce the existing law. Perhaps the Republican Party could ask President Bush to do his job and handle the domestic issues rather than handing out no-bid contracts.

Also, to punish non English speaking children is not the right avenue. If they were born here they are US citizens whether anyone likes it or not. Their parents citizenship should not be the question.

Voice of Reason said...

After reading the above post I will concede that the inscription is not on the copper portion of the statue. It is on the pedestal. However, the issue is illegal immigration. I believe that Commissioner Noe is doing what she thinks is best. However, I respectfully disagree. More attention is being focused on this useless resolution than on the children, many of whom are Americans just like you and I. I am not an extremist like many of the posters on both sides. I beleve that there is rarely a bright line answer. But to take the positon that there is is almost always wrong.

Illegal immigration is wrong and it is costing us. However there are many other things that are costing us as well i.e. wasteful lawsuits. How much have those cost the County.

Its a shame that insightful and helpful debate can't take place without name calling and oneupmanship. I have to say that Commissioner Noe is right about trying to keep the issue focused. But I have no use for either of the postions taken by Jenn and sjm_AZ. They have done nothing but polorize the issue and make honest and open debate much more difficult.

SJM--AZ said...

No, "Voice of Reason," you lied, you got caught, and now you're trying to cover it up.

Clearly, you have never been to the Statue of Liberty and you're spouting all this emotional rhetoric because it sounds good, and no one has ever exposed your lies before.

The inscription is NOT "on the pedestal" as you try to claim. The INTERIOR museum contained WITHIN THE PEDESTAL AREA has several rooms that contain thousands of items--I've seen them myself, Voice of Reason. The placque is one more item contained in many display cases; examples include several shipping manifest books from Holland America vessels. The placque is one of many items, with placement equal to that of many others--no more and no less.

I can understand that you want to evade this topic now that your lies have been clearly and undeniably exposed.

An example of your continued attempts at evasion are what you've included yourself: "However there are many other things that are costing us as well i.e. wasteful lawsuits." "Changing the subject" is another tactic used by the pro-illegal immigration group when the "facts" they cite are exposed as lies.

And after calling "extremist" those who don't agree with you and/or have exposed your "facts," you then whine "Its a shame that insightful and helpful debate can't take place without name calling and oneupmanship."

So now you try to evade the exposure of your false facts by labelling it "oneupmanship!"

"insightful and helpful debate" doesn't consist of spouting lies as you have, later trying to evade accountability when the lies are publicly exposed and you can't wiggle out of them, and finally whine about name-calling.

Commissioner Noe and I are both keeping this "debate" focused--each in our own way.

I happen to be the one who insists on TRUTHFUL DISCUSSION by exposing your false facts. I also mention the obvious--that someone whose false facts are repeatedly exposed might well be considered by others as either a liar or an uninformed demagogue who depends on emotion ("the children") rather than facts.

"Voice of Reason" isn't the name I would have selected, but hey, be my guest. Commissioner Noe and I depend on our names rather than try to borrow some alias.

I think I've established to my satisfaction that there's no knowledgable discussion occuring from the "opposition posters" like Gabriella (who seems to have slunk away) and Voice of Reason (???).

That Jenn/Jean Simoneaux and whatever other aliases she may use has no facts was established back in May with her "Letter to the Editor."

Voice of Reason said...

In 1903, one of the most memorable changes to the statue occurred, without fanfare or publicity, when a bronze tablet was fastened to an interior wall of the pedestal. Cast as a part of the plaque was a poem written in 1883 that has become the credo for thousands of immigrants coming to America.
(Not that it really matters)

I will leave this discussion now. but I must ask why all the anger smj_az? I will let your post speak for itself. I am not a defender of illegal immigration and never will be. I used the term extremist to both you and Jen, and I stand by that!

Tim Nunan said...

What part of illegal is so hard to understand? Attempting to justify illegals because they rent or pay sales taxes doesn't excuse the illegal act.

The monetary costs are becoming more and more apparent and the hidden costs of not having secure borders may will be more than we care to pay.

Jenn Simoneaux said...

Am I in favor of illegal immigration as Mrs. Noe asks?

Yes - but like most serious issues facing America, it is not a simple black or white answer as Mrs. Noe or Tom Lowe or Carl Two Feathers would like to think.

If a mother is simply crossing the border above Tijuana to have a baby in San Diego so that the child is a US Citizen, then no, I am not in support of illegal immigration.

If a couple swims the Rio Grande and then pays a coyote 3 grand to immigrate to Tom Lowe's backyard simply to collect WIC, then I am opposed again.

But if they come to work in jobs abandoned by locals cleaning hotel rooms; deboning chicken; installing drywall; washing dishes; picking tomatoes and cleaning toilets, then yes, Mrs. Noe, I am in favor of illegal immigration.

Why?

Because you nor none of those who would send Hispanics packing have a suitable answer as to where this labor would be replaced.

And these people are repaying that huge and unsubstantiated bill that the esteemed Tom Lowe wants to send to the federal government - yet he is unwilling or unable to calculate their contributions to the Hamblen County economy. I suspect the latter is correct.

Again, Mrs. Noe, I ask you. Have you attempted during your tenure to bring in one single job to Hamblen County?

And sjm-az doesn't count.

SJM--AZ said...

It's easy to see why Simoneaux has dictated in her leftist manner that "I don't count."

She's grabbed another tactic of the pro-illegal immigration champions, claiming the issue is "complex." Nothing complex about it Simoneaux--those who follow the rules are legal; those who don't are illegal. That's not just my opinion, Simoneaux, that's the rendering of Title 8 United States Code Section 1101, that defines an immigrant, an alien, and an illegal alien.

Legal or illegal has nothing to do with whether they benefit the elitists by providing cheap slave labor. Sounds to me like if the illegal aliens don't work cheap for Simoneaux, she'd like to deport them. Her rationale sounds very much like what Southerners claimed 160 years ago to justify slavery.

News Flash, Simoneaux! I'm an American citizen, born and bread, unlike the illegal aliens that you continue to whine and snivel in defense.

I exposed your silly rhetoric from last May's Herald, and exposed the lies you told couched in emotional baloney, and that's something you leftists just can't tolerate--facts that expose your lies.

You're wrong, Simoneaux. I DO count, and the illegal aliens you champion DON'T count.

Jenn Simoneaux said...

Sjm-az, surely there are issues in Arizona that deserve your 1950s mentality. I think that you can easily find a "Life with Riley" reunion or a "Beat the Clock" festival to occupy your time now that the venerable "Five Rivers Herald" stopped publication.

I would hope you are not one of those latter day "Minutemen" who take time each day after watching Days of our lives reruns on the Soap channel to report people trying to work for a living.

The Minutemen these days are hardly the patriots they were in the Revolution. Today "Minuteman" undoubtedly means the amount of time one of them takes to answer the question "What day of the week is it?".